No matter, let's start.
I cannot tell you how many times I have heard atheists characterize Christians as “wasting” their lives. Some mean it as a pejorative, others are quite sincere about it, but in every case there is some kind of concern about Christians reaching the end of their lives and discovering it was all such a waste.
Uh oh. This a problem. People having different opinions about what one should do with his time. Serious stuff indeed. Let's play this from a different angle. Could the generic, caricatured atheists you describe have animosity towards a religion that says quite clearly that the only worthwhile way through life is through their particular brand of God? What happens to the person that's had 150 Pascal's Wagers thrown in his face, and doesn't want to sit through a 151st? I guess it doesn't work that way, right?
By and large atheists of this sort have a desire to draw the Christian away from his or her faith and into a perspective that will not waste this supposedly one and only life. So there are two thoughts I have had with respect to this notion that I wish to share. And instead of speaking broadly for Christians everywhere, which obviously I cannot do, I will speak for myself.
Good job at singling yourself out, but you forgot a crucial point of the conversation, when you single out the opposition and clearly refute statements made, not simply bunching up shit you've heard and dismissing it as "LOL crazy stuff atheists say". For these purposes, let's assume you're talking to me, as I think most religious practice is a colossal waste of time and resources on this planet.
On the one hand, presumably as I am lying on my deathbed, exactly how do I come to the realization that it was all such a waste? Suppose I am lying on a hospital bed, perhaps overrun with cancer and death just a matter of hours away. I have lived my life according to my convictions of Christ’s redeeming grace, committed to a local church whom I have been lovingly devoted to and who has surrounded me in a warm community of support, edification, opportunity, and guidance. I have engaged my passions in learning and understanding, from theology to philosophy to science, through both self-reflection and discourse. I have pursued my appetite for reading, from captivating novels to academic textbooks. I have experienced family and friendship; I have experienced love and being loved, forgiving and being forgiven. I have known the rewards of success and the lessons of failure. I have loved those who hate me and served those who love me. And in every circumstance I have seen God’s providential hand and (even if not consistently) praised God for it all. I have known the God of all creation and have been known by him, through which I have had a scope of vision that transcends the limits of my self, humankind, or the place in history that my existence occupied. I have seen with reverential awe the breathtaking beauty and interconnected realities of God’s handiwork.
So you're saying you've had the most fulfilling life ever, and you're about to die due to some terminal illness (trollgod), and you look at your life thinking there isn't anything wrong with any of it because dammit, YOU FELT GOD.
Yes, that's perfectly fine. If you manage to make it through life not being a complete shithead, then perhaps you've done pretty well for yourself indeed. The fact you believe in a magic deity doesn't mean your entire life is a waste - that would be a claim so ridiculous it would break my crazy crap-o-meter, and that thing's made in Germany.
However, and that's with a capital H, that doesn't mean that you haven't devoted a lot of your life to nonsense. You don't operate in a vacuum, and your actions have consequences, not to mention the ideals that you subscribe to. Having reasoned discourse is fine and all, but at some point you have to realize you belong to an organization that has so much blood on its hands and disenfranchises so many people it should be charged with crimes against humanity.
At what point do you consider turning homosexuals into second-class citizens as part of God's awesome grace? What about supporting an organization that defecates on the Constitution, all the while asks its constituency to fully fund the operation through government subsidies? How about an organization that has COUNTLESS charlatans who continuously drain the pockets of those gullible enough to actually trade their cow in for magic beans? Can you sit there with a straight face and say no time was wasted when the religion you subscribe to has a very vocal majority who believe literally that dinosaurs walked with man, men lived to be 900, snakes could talk, the sun came after light, and someday fire and brimstone will rain down from the sky because Whoa-oh, we've been bad, and God is pissed.
...Nope, I don't understand how joining up with those ideals can be interpreted as a waste of time.
It sucks that you're going to die, and it seems you've been a pretty decent person, but you did have one hell of a ridiculous belief system.
And yet somehow, as I lay here dying, I am supposed to realize this was a waste?
If you recall that your life is all tits and champagne, it's hard to see where exactly your thinking is faulty. "My life is awesome" and "I believe in nonsense" don't necessarily have any bearing on each other.
Exactly what might I have otherwise had or done? If I had not these Christ-centered convictions, would I have had friendships? But I had these. Would I have been able to enjoy great learning? Would I have had a rewarding career in a field I love? Would I have explored the halls of knowledge or the wonders of the cosmos? But I had these, too. Would I have loved and helped my fellow man? Would I have gained an understanding and appreciation for the views of others that differ from mine? But I have had and done all this—and much more. Given the sort of people that this expressed concern comes from, perhaps the waste they speak of is a life that was without an abiding wonder and intellectual curiosity about the natural world around us which we have explored and sought to understand through a web of scientific disciplines. But as someone with a profound appreciation and respect for such things, having consumed countless hours learning about cosmological and biological discoveries, my life was not lived without scientific wonder and curiosity. I could go on but at the end of the day I must confess that it escapes me just how I should realize my life was wasted.
I can play the what-if game too!
If I hadn't eaten that Taco Bell, would I have had to rush to the bathroom? If I had wheels, would I be a wagon?
You seem like you've had a very fulfilling life, and I applaud you for that. Hope you reach the stars with that can-do attitude. But excuse me if I point out that presupposing the existence of a magical being that has so many character flaws he would be written out of the first season of a Chilean soap opera is a waste of time. Would you have shared the same bonds and had the same interactions with your fellow Christians if you hadn't been you?
That question is simply stupid. It's like asking what would steak be like if it was a shoelace. Again you're making a caricature of the atheists you've spoken to, and created arguments that aren't actually there. No one's saying your entire life is a waste - just the part that you devote to worshiping and talking to your imaginary friend to make things better in your life magically. Just because you made friends in his fan club doesn't make the action of talking to him any less absurd.
On the other hand, what is it about lying at death’s door that is supposed to clue me in to it all being a waste? Granting the atheist his or her view that this life is the only one I have, that when I die there is nothing left but non-existence as my body decomposes in the ground, how am I supposed to realize this was all a waste? While I am yet alive but dying, there is nothing that would indicate that this life was the only one I had; in other words, I have not crossed the threshold of death yet so there is not anything that indicates those atheists were right. The irony which seems lost on them, however, is that even if they are right I will never know it—because as a dead and decomposing corpse I would not realize anything. On the atheist’s view, a corpse does not engage in acts of cognition.
You don't realize anything after you die - you answered your own question. The realization comes before you die, hence the entire conversation - which hopefully happens between two living individuals.
And by the way, there is NOTHING indicating that this life is the only one you have? The fact that all brain function ceases (the thing in your head that makes you, you) isn't a good indicator that hey, maybe this is it?
...Or perhaps you think that because you haven't yet died, the chances of there being and afterlife and not are 50/50?
The only thing ironic thing here is you talking about you being too dead to care to realize anything, and faulting atheists for trying to point that out to you before you actually die, all the while believing that your consciousness (a product of your physical body) will get transported to a place where you can spend ALL the time with the imaginary friend you've been talking to this whole time.
See guys, told you he was real!
Let's waste some more time and brain cells.
Indeed, as I lay there dying I would not realize it was all a waste, for by the grace of God I did everything I desired to do. When you live the life that you want to, according to the values and passions you have, how is that a waste? Perhaps the things I value and desire to do is uninteresting or tedious to you, but what has that to do with me? For example, if I love to study God’s word and you do not, just how is that a waste for me?
Different people have different opinions on what is worthwhile in life. In my opinion, listening to country music is a waste of time. It's not necessarily a waste from your perspective, but I can certainly let you know what I think on the subject, and if you so desire, you can tell me to kindly fuck off and leave you to your Garth Brooks. I'm really not sure who exactly this is aimed towards.
You also write as if you practice your religion in a vacuum, and that your religion is completely benign. If your beliefs led to demonstrable acts of malice, prejudice and persecution, would you consider that worthy of your time, or would you brush it off and don the rose colored glasses you've been wearing for this entire conversation in regards to your life?
If the atheist is right, if this life is the one and only life I have and I lived it according to what I value and desire to do, after which nothing but black non-existence awaits me, then my life was neither wasted nor could I realize anything about it. That’s the sheer irony of all this. About the only thing the atheist could say is that I did not live the one and only life I have according to that atheist’s values and desires—but so what? If I did that, then I would be wasting my life.
Nothing like a fucking Pascal's Wager to round out the day.
You're essentially saying if I believed in nonsense, then died, I didn't waste any time because I BELIEVED it, and couldn't spend my time doing anything else - perhaps something more rooted to reality. Nothing is ever a waste of time and resources if it makes you happy and coincides with your values, right?
Consider this example:
Tim lived in the city and had an amazing intellect and loved to solve problems. He had a knack for working under pressure and came up with creative solutions for complex scenarios. Tim also spoke to his pet rock 5 times a day and spent most of his time and money writing love notes to it and constructing costumes for plays he held weekly for himself and his rock.
To most people, this would be ridiculous and a waste of time and resources, especially for a person of natural talent. This is how I view religion - you keep talking to that pet rock and putting on plays, all the while trying to convince everyone else you're not crazy because you hear the rock talking back.
Although I appreciate the concern that such atheists have, I do have to point out the incoherence of it. Given their view, and especially their disdain for people shoving values down their throats that are not theirs, it quite literally makes no sense for them to suggest that I am wasting my life in any way. Thus their concern is misplaced and unintelligible at any rate. If you want to know whether or not Christians are wasting their lives, then ask them if they are living it according to their values and passions.
And do try being a little more self-consistent; if you are right, then my corpse would be incapable of realizing it.
So one who doesn't subscribe to your belief system cannot have an opinion that differs from yours because you live life by YOUR VALUES DAMMIT. Well have you considered that people aren't coming from your values, but another set that may or may not be more suitable for an accurate interpretation of reality? Since you promote discussion and discourse, what about discussing the reasons behind someone calling an action a waste of time, rather than brushing off the argument as "CORPSES DONT THINK, STUPID"?
And where are you getting the notion that a life can't be a waste simply because someone lived life the way they wanted?
I hope there isn't a part 2. Sequels usually aren't as good as the first, and there isn't much to go on for a next round. Should I get a bunch of atheist friends to now congratulate me while I delete all the comments that I don't like?
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